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  1. #3361
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    Quote Originally Posted by -sunstrider- View Post
    glyph life tap masi berasa ya? soalnya gw liat belakangan equip spirit rada kurang gitu disekitar sini ~_~"
    *set equip wl juga udah ga ada spirit lg kalo ga sala (cmiiw)*
    both CoA n Corr glyph are inferior to LT based on EJ's simcraft.

    Quote Originally Posted by unidentified View Post
    klo gw liat di offi sih emg katanya klo dah set high end, glyph life tap mnding diganti glyph immolate/glyph imp,,
    tp beberapa bulan yg lalu gw coba, klo di AMPM dps msh gdean pake glyph life tap ntah knapa
    Biasanya pada pake glyph immolate kalo destro. Affli tetep life tap.

    Quote Originally Posted by imutzz View Post
    Eradication itu nambah haste ya? Pernah ambil talentnya, ke proc tapi sepertinya gak nambah haste sama sekali (mungkin emang saya yang cupu jadi gak brasa ). Sekalian tanya dunk, kalo WL afflic itu bnernya incer apa dulu, hit rating apa spell power? Trus hit rating buat caster tuh di AMPM jalan gak sih? Perlu kita bkin sampe 17%?
    nambah haste.
    Elegy - Affli

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  3. #3362
    amber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unidentified View Post
    atas gw ga bisa multi quote.. rofl

    buff molten core mah procnya dari corruption om,
    maksud saya itu talent molten core(pasif) kan nambah durasi immolate 9 detik= nambah demej immolate 3 tick
    gw ksh kalkulasi dasarnya deh biar paham

    Demej per cast time immolate(without molten core): ~1190/1.5= 793
    Demej per cast time immolate(with molten core): ~1900/1.5= 1267
    Demej per cast time solfire(under decimation): ~1713/2.4= 713.75

    nah yg di atas itu msh blom dimodify sama SP + haste, klo mau ngecek yg lbh real silakan tes di dummy haha
    cmiiw
    klo ngetes di dummy, lsg decimation apa gak ya? soalnya kan gak ada %-an hp...
    terus gw juga lupa haste nambah cepet tick immolate apa gak ya?

    sebenernya klo dipikir-pikir gw gak pernah perhatiin damage immolate, pas udah decimation, SF gw 1 detik, immolate 1 detikan lebih dikit, cast immolate sekali = buang SF 1, damage SF kira2 klo gak crit 11k-13k, klo crit 22k-26k, masih worth apa gak ya immolate, gak pernah cek damage nya dalam sekali cast seh...
    Man, the power of MOE is frightening!



  4. #3363
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    perhitungan kasar perbandingan Damage Per Cast Time antara Soul Fire dengan Immolate menggunakan talent Deep Demonology 0/54/17 (tanpa Aftermath)

    Crit Modifier = Base x Ruin x Chaotic = (150% + 50% ) x 1,03% = 2,06%
    Damage Modifier (DIM)= Base x Demon Pact x Master Demon (Felguard) x Firestone x CoE x Sanc Retribution x ICC Mod = 100% x 110% x 105% x 101% x 113% x 103% x 130% = 176,51%

    Spell Power = 5200
    Haste = 31,63%
    Crit = 57,52%

    Soul Fire
    Cast Time = (6 - 2) / (1 + 31,63%) x (100% - 40% Decimation) = 1,82 sec
    Rata2 noncrit = ((1323 + 1657) / 2 + SP) x DIM = 11808
    Rata2 crit = 11808 x Crit Mod = 24325
    Damage rata2 = 24325 x 57,52% + 11808 x (100% - 57,52%) = 19008
    Damage Per Cast Time = 19008 / 1,82 = 10425

    Soul Fire (Molten Core)
    Rata2 noncrit = 11808 x 118% = 13934
    Rata2 crit = 24325 x 118% = 28704
    Damage rata2 = 24325 x (57,52% + 15%) + 11808 x (100% - 57,52% - 15%) = 24645
    Damage Per Cast Time = 24645 / 1,82 = 13517

    Immolate
    Cast Time = (2 - 0,5) / (1 + 31,63%) = 1,14 sec
    Direct Damage:
    Rata2 noncrit (DD) = (465 + 5200 x 20%) * DIM = 2656
    Rata2 crit (DD) = 2656 x Crit Mod = 5470
    Damage rata2 (DD) = 5470 X 57,52% + 2656 X (100% - 57,52%) = 4275
    Damage over Time:
    Rata2 noncrit (DoT) = ((1376 + 1384) / 2 + 5200) x 20% x DIM = 2323
    Rata2 crit (DoT) = 2323 x Crit Mod = 4785
    Damage rata2 (DoT) = 4785 x 57,52% + 2323 x (100% - 57,52%) = 3739
    Damage Per Cast Time = (4275 + 3739 x 8) / 1,14 = 30000

    dari hasil perhitungan sangat jelas jika Immolate lebih baik tetap dipakai saat Decimation phase
    tentunya jika menggunakan talent Demo Destro damage Immolate akan lebih besar lagi karena talent Aftermath (+6% Immolate periodic damage) dan Imp Immolate (+30% Immolate damage)

    sekian dan terima kasih

    nb: tolong dikoreksi kalau ada salah
    Last edited by deardevil; 01-06-11 at 06:11.

  5. #3364
    amber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deardevil View Post
    perhitungan kasar perbandingan Damage Per Cast Time antara Soul Fire dengan Immolate menggunakan talent Deep Demonology 0/54/17 (tanpa Aftermath)

    Crit Modifier = Base x Ruin x Chaotic = (150% + 50% ) x 1,03% = 2,06%
    Damage Modifier (DIM)= Base x Demon Pact x Master Demon (Felguard) x Firestone x CoE x Sanc Retribution x ICC Mod = 100% x 110% x 105% x 101% x 113% x 103% x 130% = 176,51%

    Spell Power = 5200
    Haste = 31,63%
    Crit = 57,52%

    Soul Fire
    Cast Time = (6 - 2) / (1 + 31,63%) x (100% - 40% Decimation) = 1,82 sec
    Rata2 noncrit = ((1323 + 1657) / 2 + SP) x DIM = 11808
    Rata2 crit = 11808 x Crit Mod = 24325
    Damage rata2 = 24325 x 57,52% + 11808 x (100% - 57,52%) = 19008
    Damage Per Cast Time = 19008 / 1,82 = 10425

    Soul Fire (Molten Core)
    Rata2 noncrit = 11808 x 118% = 13934
    Rata2 crit = 24325 x 118% = 28704
    Damage rata2 = 24325 x (57,52% + 15%) + 11808 x (100% - 57,52% - 15%) = 24645
    Damage Per Cast Time = 24645 / 1,82 = 13517

    Immolate
    Cast Time = (2 - 0,5) / (1 + 31,63%) = 1,14 sec
    Direct Damage:
    Rata2 noncrit (DD) = (465 + 5200 x 20%) * DIM = 2656
    Rata2 crit (DD) = 2656 x Crit Mod = 5470
    Damage rata2 (DD) = 5470 X 57,52% + 2656 X (100% - 57,52%) = 4275
    Damage over Time:
    Rata2 noncrit (DoT) = ((1376 + 1384) / 2 + 5200) x 20% x DIM = 2323
    Rata2 crit (DoT) = 2323 x Crit Mod = 4785
    Damage rata2 (DoT) = 4785 x 57,52% + 2323 x (100% - 57,52%) = 3739
    Damage Per Cast Time = (4275 + 3739 x 8) / 1,14 = 30000

    dari hasil perhitungan sangat jelas jika Immolate lebih baik tetap dipakai saat Decimation phase
    tentunya jika menggunakan talent Demo Destro damage Immolate akan lebih besar lagi karena talent Aftermath (+6% Immolate periodic damage) dan Imp Immolate (+30% Immolate damage)

    sekian dan terima kasih

    nb: tolong dikoreksi kalau ada salah
    kayanya nih, itu decimation + haste rating itu additive, bukan multiplicative...
    soalnya, anehnya gw haste 34.08% + under decimation, SF cast time nya jadinya 0.9 sec, dibawah GCD (kebuang 0.1 sec)
    tapi klo diliat dari damage per cast time, mao SF jadi 1 detik pun tetep kalah damage per cast time nya dengan immolate, cape deh...
    Man, the power of MOE is frightening!



  6. #3365

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    ampun dj, niat bgt ngitungnya pke ada buff + demejnya haha, nice & clear calculation!

    itu decimation ngurangin base cast time solfire 40%, dari 4s jd 2.4s
    klo hastemu ~33.33% ya jd 1.8s, walopun ada WoA totem n swift retri msh tetep di atas gcd
    klo di bawah gcd itu keknya kena BL/pot haste/trinket proc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rurian View Post
    Biasanya pada pake glyph immolate kalo destro. Affli tetep life tap.
    nah beberapa bulan yg lalu (desember 2010 kira2), gw coba pke glyph immolate (talen destruct-demo) malah dps ngurang skitar 2k-an dibanding dgn pkek glyph life tap, padahal buff sama (raidnya orgnya itu2trus), ada yg bisa kasih pnjelasan knp?
    Last edited by unidentified; 01-06-11 at 11:23.
    I must live longer, cause they will still need me

  7. #3366

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    Quote Originally Posted by deardevil View Post
    perhitungan kasar perbandingan Damage Per Cast Time antara Soul Fire dengan Immolate menggunakan talent Deep Demonology 0/54/17 (tanpa Aftermath)

    Crit Modifier = Base x Ruin x Chaotic = (150% + 50% ) x 1,03% = 2,06%
    Damage Modifier (DIM)= Base x Demon Pact x Master Demon (Felguard) x Firestone x CoE x Sanc Retribution x ICC Mod = 100% x 110% x 105% x 101% x 113% x 103% x 130% = 176,51%

    Spell Power = 5200
    Haste = 31,63%
    Crit = 57,52%

    Soul Fire
    Cast Time = (6 - 2) / (1 + 31,63%) x (100% - 40% Decimation) = 1,82 sec
    Rata2 noncrit = ((1323 + 1657) / 2 + SP) x DIM = 11808
    Rata2 crit = 11808 x Crit Mod = 24325
    Damage rata2 = 24325 x 57,52% + 11808 x (100% - 57,52%) = 19008
    Damage Per Cast Time = 19008 / 1,82 = 10425

    Soul Fire (Molten Core)
    Rata2 noncrit = 11808 x 118% = 13934
    Rata2 crit = 24325 x 118% = 28704
    Damage rata2 = 24325 x (57,52% + 15%) + 11808 x (100% - 57,52% - 15%) = 24645
    Damage Per Cast Time = 24645 / 1,82 = 13517

    Immolate
    Cast Time = (2 - 0,5) / (1 + 31,63%) = 1,14 sec
    Direct Damage:
    Rata2 noncrit (DD) = (465 + 5200 x 20%) * DIM = 2656
    Rata2 crit (DD) = 2656 x Crit Mod = 5470
    Damage rata2 (DD) = 5470 X 57,52% + 2656 X (100% - 57,52%) = 4275
    Damage over Time:
    Rata2 noncrit (DoT) = ((1376 + 1384) / 2 + 5200) x 20% x DIM = 2323
    Rata2 crit (DoT) = 2323 x Crit Mod = 4785
    Damage rata2 (DoT) = 4785 x 57,52% + 2323 x (100% - 57,52%) = 3739
    Damage Per Cast Time = (4275 + 3739 x 8) / 1,14 = 30000

    dari hasil perhitungan sangat jelas jika Immolate lebih baik tetap dipakai saat Decimation phase
    tentunya jika menggunakan talent Demo Destro damage Immolate akan lebih besar lagi karena talent Aftermath (+6% Immolate periodic damage) dan Imp Immolate (+30% Immolate damage)

    sekian dan terima kasih

    nb: tolong dikoreksi kalau ada salah
    klo mau perbandingan memakai waktu yg setara donk.
    SF itu klo ada decimation cast 1,5 s => 13517
    immo 30k itu 24 sec klo d konfersikan 1,5 s => 1875

    uda kliatan kan DPS ny besar mana
    SF = 9011 DPS
    immo = 1250 DPS

    beda jauh lah brader.. tetep lah SF klo d pake pas decimation

  8. #3367
    Xanvial's Avatar
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    mksudnya kan klo per cast ini ngitungnya, bukan damage perdetik,
    klo ngitung gini caranya ga usah immolation donk dari hp 100%, geli2 itu...

    kan tadi ada yg tanya perlu kah pake 1 GCD buat immolation pas hp di bawah 35%, atau ttp spam soul fire
    karena percast msh gede immo, jadi sempetin aja 1x refresh immo

  9. #3368

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanvial View Post
    mksudnya kan klo per cast ini ngitungnya, bukan damage perdetik,
    klo ngitung gini caranya ga usah immolation donk dari hp 100%, geli2 itu...

    kan tadi ada yg tanya perlu kah pake 1 GCD buat immolation pas hp di bawah 35%, atau ttp spam soul fire
    karena percast msh gede immo, jadi sempetin aja 1x refresh immo
    ow gitu, kirain pas buff MC pilih mana gt antara SF ama immo
    tetep klo proc MC, SF kluarin dluan under decimation tp ya
    nunggu 3x cast SF baru dah pake immo

  10. #3369

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    Ini pada maenan talent hybrid ya? Boleh minta settingan talentnya? Pakenya glyph apa aja?

  11. #3370
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    Quote Originally Posted by amber View Post
    kayanya nih, itu decimation + haste rating itu additive, bukan multiplicative...
    soalnya, anehnya gw haste 34.08% + under decimation, SF cast time nya jadinya 0.9 sec, dibawah GCD (kebuang 0.1 sec)
    tapi klo diliat dari damage per cast time, mao SF jadi 1 detik pun tetep kalah damage per cast time nya dengan immolate, cape deh...
    Quote Originally Posted by unidentified View Post
    ampun dj, niat bgt ngitungnya pke ada buff + demejnya haha, nice & clear calculation!

    itu decimation ngurangin base cast time solfire 40%, dari 4s jd 2.4s
    klo hastemu ~33.33% ya jd 1.8s, walopun ada WoA totem n swift retri msh tetep di atas gcd
    klo di bawah gcd itu keknya kena BL/pot haste/trinket proc?
    iseng aja tadi pagi ga ada kerjaan terus ga bisa tidur
    sekalian ngetes buat bikin spreadsheetnya haha

    gw baru aja pindah jalur dari affli jadi deep demon soalnya kayanya seru
    terus gw juga penasaran sama apa tetep masukin Immolate pas Decimation
    asumsi awal gw tetep masukin Immolate soalnya proc 4 set T10 juga kan
    kalo diliat di recount damage Immolate itu sekitar 10%-15%an
    dan setelah gw itung ternyata emang worth untuk tetep cast Immolate pas Decimation

    kalo masalah cast time gw sendiri aja agak bingung ini sama perhitungan haste di ampm
    dengan haste 959 (29,25%) harusnya cast time Soul Fire jadi 4/1,2925 = 3,09 sec tapi di tooltip malah 3 sec pas
    perhitungan decimation yg gw pake juga bukan 40% haste tapi langsung jadi 40% reduced cast time yg ternyata gw baru sadar skrg kalo emg lebih rasional yg ini soalnya kalo diitung 40% haste malah dapet 2,17 sec -_-

    Quote Originally Posted by unidentified View Post
    nah beberapa bulan yg lalu (desember 2010 kira2), gw coba pke glyph immolate (talen destruct-demo) malah dps ngurang skitar 2k-an dibanding dgn pkek glyph life tap, padahal buff sama (raidnya orgnya itu2trus), ada yg bisa kasih pnjelasan knp?
    wah kalo ngurangnya sampe 2k mah ada faktor lain rasanya
    gw sendiri sekarang glyphnya pake 2 sisa dari affli yaitu Life Tap sama Quick Decay, terus Haunt diganti sama Immolate
    soalnya bingung juga sih mau pake glyph apa lagi Felguard geli2 gitu Metamorph katanya kurang bagus tapi belom coba juga sih

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun_Si_Mbek View Post
    ow gitu, kirain pas buff MC pilih mana gt antara SF ama immo
    tetep klo proc MC, SF kluarin dluan under decimation tp ya
    nunggu 3x cast SF baru dah pake immo
    kalo dari perhitungan kasar sih Immolate tetep prioritas
    tinggal cast sekali kan terus spam Soul Fire lagi

    Quote Originally Posted by imutzz View Post
    Ini pada maenan talent hybrid ya? Boleh minta settingan talentnya? Pakenya glyph apa aja?
    kalo gw sih males maen hybrid, kalo mau pure dps mending afflic potensi dps paling gede kalo kata elitist sih
    mumpung sekarang gw lagi baik makanya maen demon biar bisa ngasih buff ke raid
    Last edited by deardevil; 01-06-11 at 15:11.

  12. #3371
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    cast time nya km liat full buff?
    soalnya yg di tooltip character itu cmn nampilin haste dri gear aja, ga termasuk talent atau buff dari luar, wrath of air (5% haste) dan swift retribution/imp moonkin aura (3% haste) stack multiplicative

    soal talent emang affliction yg paling gede dps nya, tapi klo di raid guild ku sih biasanya minim ada 1 demonology buat buff Demonic Pact

  13. #3372
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    itu haste 959 dari gear doang (belom ada DFO T_T) harusnya sih 3,09 sec tapi malah 3 sec
    terus kata siapa buff luar ga masuk tooltip? coba aja pake palret terus bandingin pas ada aura sama matiin aura, kalo shaman bandingin pas pake totem sama ngga, druid pas normal sama moonkin form

  14. #3373

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    kalo deep afflic maen sama demon apa ambil 17 talent di destruc?

  15. #3374
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    Quote Originally Posted by deardevil View Post
    itu haste 959 dari gear doang (belom ada DFO T_T) harusnya sih 3,09 sec tapi malah 3 sec
    terus kata siapa buff luar ga masuk tooltip? coba aja pake palret terus bandingin pas ada aura sama matiin aura, kalo shaman bandingin pas pake totem sama ngga, druid pas normal sama moonkin form
    udah, klo di tooltip ga berubah stat % hastenya
    tapi yg cast skillnya tentu aja ngurang

  16. #3375
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    Quote Originally Posted by imutzz View Post
    kalo deep afflic maen sama demon apa ambil 17 talent di destruc?
    kalo pve mah sub destro dong biar shadow boltnya sakit
    kalo pvp baru ambil sub demon biar lebih tebel

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